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Post by Jessica O on Sept 17, 2016 15:51:43 GMT
I've seen most of my students don't get 'to be' with age, they say 'I have 15 years old' because it is like this in portuguese, for them it is hard to understand 'I am 15 years old'.
Dayse mention the 'have breakfast' that's so true, they always ask this and it is very confusing for them.
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Post by Jessica O on Sept 17, 2016 16:05:15 GMT
Yes Wanius, well thought. Another classic is the sound of this same "i" phoneme at the end of the word hot. My students always say that and their attachment to L1 is very clear. Transfer occus constantly and I believe is a natural process. Well said, Liliane. Regarding most of the silent sounds in English, I'd say that learners tend to use this extra phoneme after them. Another examples are: book(i), test(i), job(i), stop(i), and so on... I couldn't agree more with you when you claim that this is a natural process, but we have to raise awareness to such differences as the students' language level increases. Regards Just quoting here because this is so true and something one of my student does frequently. I've been warning her, but still a long process she also says: but(i), favorite(i),personality(i). and when she pauses she tends to say 'éeeeee' which is very common, so teaching expressions like 'oh', 'hm', 'erm' is helping her. |
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Post by Águida Sá on Sept 18, 2016 14:29:05 GMT
Hi, everyone!
As Vivian said, this example "I have eleven years old!" is very common. They say 'I have eleven years old" or simply "I have eleven years". They have problems in these constructions: "I am student' instead of "I am a student" or "She not play volleyball" instead of "She doesn't play volleyball."
Another problem is related to the pronunciation of the 'ch' and 'th' sounds. These sounds are replaced by others. The students have serious problems to pronounce them.
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Márcia Cristina Ferreira Silva
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Post by Márcia Cristina Ferreira Silva on Sept 18, 2016 15:35:29 GMT
Hello everybody!
As I can see the pronounce of "TH" sound is so difficult for the students.They always associate them with "S","D" or "F" the most of the time.In my opinnion this sound is so hard to learn because they don't exist in Portuguese.Another problem is the vowel "I" with long and short sounds like the words "SEAT" or "SIT".The same phoneme in the L1 and in L2 such as "STAR" English and "ESTAR" Portuguese is a common pronunciation mistake too.
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Post by marcosdeassis on Sept 18, 2016 18:40:47 GMT
The first transfer "mistake" I usually come across is "I have 15 years old", and it is a difficult one to get rid of. Students will frequently pluralize adjectives as well, sometimes I catch even some advanced students saying something like "Math and Physics are complicateds". Pronunciation is another issue when it comes to the TH sounds (voiced and voiceless); in most cases it is possible to understand what the student means, but in some tricky situations he or she may be misunderstood. A student of mine went to New York and he wanted to try Starbucks, when he arrived there, the place was teeming with people; after waiting for about 20 minutes he managed to say "I want tree coffee". His barista was initially puzzled, so he raised three fingers and repeated "I want tree coffee", the barista pointed to the menu and said "Help yourself". People behind him were growing impatient, so he decided to leave. Upon his arrival, he told me the story and he started trying to learn the sounds he hadn't. |
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Post by Águida Sá on Sept 18, 2016 18:42:38 GMT
"Interferences can occur at all levels of language."(Gorjean, 2010) As teachers, we can notice several problems of pronunciation, because "a 'foreign accent' is a direct reflection of the interference of another language", the author said. From our experience, we have lots of examples to give, especially about those that not exist in L1. I'd like to remember the strong pronounciation at the end of some words as in Portuguese. For example, the pronunciation of 'are' that in the beginning of learning is normally 'ari', "TION" is always difficult for them.
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Rafaela Santos de Paula
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Post by Rafaela Santos de Paula on Sept 18, 2016 21:02:52 GMT
Hi guys!
I admit that I struggle a lot when I'm teaching phonetics and pronunciation to my students, since I consider accent and pronunciation a big deal when you're learning another language. The "TH" sound is a classic: all students don't say it correctly, some of them use the "D" sound or the "F" sound to say it (I try to explain how to articulate to make it sound better, and sometimes it works, but is still really hard). The influence of Portuguese in L2 English pronunciation is clear when they say the "t" sound as "tch", the difficulty to say the "R" rolling the tongue (specially in the words "world" and "squirrel"), sometimes the adding of vowels in some words (just like the video shows, like "especial" or "blacky"), and my personal favorite: how they speak pronouncing every single letter and sound, which normally the L1 speakers don't (they say "speaking" just like in Portuguese, for example. You can hear the "a" and the "g" when they say it).
When the students are beginners, they use the Portuguese structure to create the phrases in their mind, so putting the adjective or the adverb in the wrong place is normal, just like the example the video shows about L1 Spanish speakers. Most students try to translate the phrase from L1 to L2 together with the structure, so it's normal to find some phrases that make sense, but no English L1 speaker would say it. This actually happens even when the student is an advance student, when they're facing a subject they've never spoken before in L2 or have never heard a L1 speaker speaking about it.
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Post by VANESSA LEROY on Sept 18, 2016 21:07:29 GMT
Hi guys ... according to some comments about the video proposed for this week and doing some connections with others chapters, what we can see is that L1 can L2 influence L2 and vice verse. Some word order in English like some collegues right mention,for example, adverb of frequency and adjectives make us confused if talking in both languages L1 or L2 « transfering some orders used on them. Another thing is TH sound when saying they , there and theatre , different pronunciation but with the same spelling. Sometimes to speak H, like house isn´t a problem but students transfer it to another words for example honor speaking in the same way.
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Post by VANESSA LEROY on Sept 18, 2016 21:11:36 GMT
The first transfer "mistake" I usually come across is "I have 15 years old", and it is a difficult one to get rid of. Students will frequently pluralize adjectives as well, sometimes I catch even some advanced students saying something like "Math and Physics are complicateds". Pronunciation is another issue when it comes to the TH sounds (voiced and voiceless); in most cases it is possible to understand what the student means, but in some tricky situations he or she may be misunderstood. A student of mine went to New York and he wanted to try Starbucks, when he arrived there, the place was teeming with people; after waiting for about 20 minutes he managed to say "I want tree coffee". His barista was initially puzzled, so he raised three fingers and repeated "I want tree coffee", the barista pointed to the menu and said "Help yourself". People behind him were growing impatient, so he decided to leave. Upon his arrival, he told me the story and he started trying to learn the sounds he hadn't. And so this is for me the mistake that I used to do when I started studying English and some of my students today, they are used to doing it frerquently. As Marcos mentioned intelligents, boroings classes etc. And I HAVE some years old it is commonly applied by them any time. See you guys Vanessa |
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Post by Priscila Queiroz on Sept 18, 2016 22:17:56 GMT
Hello classmates. I loved the explanation of the video.. Clear e straight. I agree with my colleagues position. Other transfer that I have notice on my students also has to do with the sound of "H","TH","M" and they find it hard to pronounce UNDERSTANDE they put the sound as if it had "WUANDERSTAND".
When he says that we can´t learn a new language as the same way we learned our first one, it kinds intrigued because of some Language teaching method. Some say that they have the secret to teach a person how to learn a second language using the same structure and example of the first language..
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Post by renataperezromaniuk on Sept 18, 2016 23:34:04 GMT
Hello Everybody!
You guys came up with a lot of nice examples! They are so common at an English class! Another good example would be the usage of the article "THE" in the beginning of sentences. Let's check some examples!
* O Rodrigo é um bom estudante. = The Rodrigo is a good student.
* O meu cachorro é branco. = The my dog is white.
Another example would be the use of that meaning "que" in Brazil.
*Eu tenho que comer mais frutas todos os dias. = I have that to eat more fruit every day.
:*
Renata Perez Romaniuk
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Carolina Echevarria
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Post by Carolina Echevarria on Sept 19, 2016 13:19:05 GMT
"Regarding most of the silent sounds in English, I'd say that learners tend to use this extra phoneme after them. Another examples are: book(i), test(i), job(i), stop(i), and so on..." I've specially met this issue while teaching students from Rio de Janeiro; quite interestingly, I've taught in some states of Brazil, and I've noticed the need for exercising different phonemes according to each region accent. |
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Post by Alex Rios on Sept 19, 2016 13:33:12 GMT
Hi everyone!
After watching the video, reading the text, and also reading my colleagues' posts, it clear how great L1's role plays in L2 communicative and syntactical performances. In order to illustrate a bit more the influences of L1 to L2, I came up with two examples regarding pronunciation that, to my mind, are clearly related to L1 tranfer to L2.
The first one I would like to point out has its basis on the pronunciation of the consonant "r" in American English . Brazilian students of English tend to pronounce "r" the way we say in our native language, instead of having the /r/ sound - for instance the way beginners pronounce the word "respect"- /rɪˈspekt/ won't sound American native-like at first, but by practicing this pronunciation will be changed, however, it must be said cases in which the L2 is so influenced by L1 that this pronunciation will become fossilized even though having practiced it for a long time.
Regarding the second example, what comes at handy is about the pronunciation of the word "once". It's been quite common to see my students pronouncing this word like the way it may sound in Portuguese, however they must be aware of pronouncing it as /wʌns/ instead.
To my mind, by highlighting those different pronunciations, teachers allow students think differently towards L2. However, as Grosjean stated, accent rarely impedes communication, thus students shouldn't be imposed to sound native-like in L2. Imposing a way of talking to students sounds like disregarding the huge variety of English accents that can be found in the world.
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Post by Alex Rios on Sept 19, 2016 13:38:36 GMT
It was very interesting when he provided the word “sparkle” as an example. I have frequently seen Brazilian speakers of English pronouncing the word “snake” as if there was an “i" phoneme at the beginning, i.e., [isneIk] instead of [sneIk]. When asked if it was all right, a student of mine told me “until here it’s good” when he really meant “so far so good”. This is a case of transfer at the semantic level. An explicit example of transfer from Portuguese to English, at the syntactic level, happens when a speaker tries to come up with an implied subject in a sentence as in cause clauses, for example: “She is studying hard because (?) wants to pass the test”. That's so true. I've already seen many times something like "until here it's good", and also sentences which lacks of a subject. |
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Post by Alex Rios on Sept 19, 2016 13:49:56 GMT
I've seen most of my students don't get 'to be' with age, they say 'I have 15 years old' because it is like this in portuguese, for them it is hard to understand 'I am 15 years old'. Dayse mention the 'have breakfast' that's so true, they always ask this and it is very confusing for them. The use of the verb "have" to indicate how old you are has been a common practice among young learners of L2. What worries me the most is about this misuse among advanced learners. Sometimes it becomes so fossilized that they just can't help it. :/ |
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